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Responses to some comments

As promised, I’m going to directly interact with patients on this blog.  I’m not an MD and so will quite frequently be out of my area of expertise.  However, I think it will be worthwhile to continue to think about the patient experience with our device and maybe I can get a “gut” feel for something and make a correct decision (when there is no scientific reason to decide one way or the other).   I felt I owed this to the patients who read articles with headlines that say “Cure for Tinnitus Discovered” and wonder when they can get their “cure”.   Hopefully, when you see how this development is happening it will cut out the guesswork on your part. 

So, in answer to some of the comments/questions:

  1. Our first study in Tinnitus was designed to understand whether we needed a permanent implant or whether we could simply use a percutaneous lead (think wire with no battery).   Our prediction from the rat study was that the therapy would reduce the perception of tinnitus and the loudness to silence in less than 1 month.  What we have seen so far is that in some patients we see some dramatic effects in 10 days, but the tinnitus returns unless the treatment is “maintained”.  Since we can’t leave our percutaneous device in forever, we must develop an  implantable device. 
  2. Understanding what under control mean is difficult in the tinnitus sufferer.  The gold standard is to use questionnaires which capture the amount your tinnitus is bothering you.  So, the questions don’t  focus on the actual loudness (objective), but rather how much the tinnitus is bothering you.  We are seeing drops of 40% to 60% in responders in the questionnaires (said another way, my tinnitus is bothering me 60% less than it usually does).   The problems with this measure is that some of the patients who haven’t gotten this kind of reduction still maintain the therapy worked and they would do the surgery again.  So, is the survey question set adequately capturing the therapeutic value?
  3. The  results are a very good signal, but even amongst tinnitus experts there is disagreement about whether to focus instead on the actual loudness using something called the MML (minimum masking level).  It could be argued that this test is an ojective measure of how loud the tinnitus is.  We get this by essentially turning up noise until the tinnitus is masked and recording that noise level.  If the noise level needed to mask the tinnitus drops after giving our therapy, then the tinnitus sound is lower.  The problem here is that tinnitus patients have tinnitus that floats up and down, comes on or off at various times.  So, it is really hard to say what level the tinnitus is at in the first place  It is also hard to get patients to come in for all of this testing consistently.   
  4. We expect that with the signals we are seeing in this clinical study that we will develop a permanent implant.  There was some doubt on our part as to whether we would continue on this research, but our Board has agreed to continue based on the promising results we have seen to date in the clinic.  This implant will enable us to deliver therapy over a longer time period and hopefully maintain the effects we see in the shorter term.  The timeline on the development of a product like this would be something like overseas clinical study (next study) starts in 2012 and finishes in 2014 with a CE Mark approval in 2015.  I would expect an FDA approval (if we saw safety and efficacy in our clinical studies) sometime after that.  I wish I had a better news about how quickly this therapy would be available.  In reading all of the emails from the patients, I can’t even imagine how difficult this disease is.

 

 

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  • French guy

    5 years, it will be long but represent nothing for all lifes you will save. If you succed you will be the god of all of us. If one day i have no more tinnitus i would like see you and give you all my love.
    Thanks for all

  • Hugo

    Please go on your efforts, you are a hope for millions of people suffering from tinnitus in the world, don’t give up.  If it worked on rats that means you are on the right way. Maybe test other settings, change the stimuli intensities, or use a different sound. If it works one day it would be a revolution in the world and I would be grateful for life.

  • TM

    On Saturday July 9, 2011, I went to church and I lit a candle.  I asked God for the official clinical trials to take place.

  • German Guest

    I can imagine how frustrating it must be that your animal trial worked and now in humans not as good as you all hoped. Especially for Dr. Kilgard and Dr. Engineer; but they should keep on their efforts. You have reached as first in 2000 years to cure Tinnitus (in mice).

    Millions of Patients are waiting for your Treatment all over the world. I hope that your news beginning of 2011 (New Hope for Curing Tinnitus by Re Booting the Brain) will come true and not given up by too less interest and funds.

    Please continue with your regular updates. Many people are reading this. Thx Will Rosellini.

  • Will

    On the contrary, I am very excited about the results and believe that with some modifications and more precise patient selection we will have a very exciting solution to tinnitus…with our Board’s support, we are moving ahead as fast as we can. 

    • USA Guest

      Please thank your Board for their continued support!

  • Nicolas_houart

    Hello,

    First, i would like to thank you and your team for your interest in tinnitus. Then i have a few questions for you: You talk about “dramatic effects in 10 days” but the only human trial i am aware of is the Antwerp one. One of Dirk De Ridder’s assistants recently told me that over five implanted patients, one has a slight amelioration. Is there another unknown trial with more spectacular results ?

    Also, on the very interesting topic of tinnitus measurement: i agree with you that tinnitus questionnaires are a rather flawed way of measuring therapeutic efficiency of VNS. Many people tend to be less bothered by tinnitus with time. Also, subjective perception of tinnitus must be subject to huge placebo effect. There is more to say but my comment is long enough

    What surprises me a bit is the usage of MML. MML indicates only the level of external noise used to mask and nothing else i think. I would not use it to measure tinnitus. There are several reasons for that. One is that masking can reduce tinnitus intensity by inhibition. I read somewhere around one third of patients experience residual inhibition ! Another is that some conditions can alter -for a given extrnal sound intensity- the percieved loudness (as in sone or phone). Obvious culprits would be hyperacusis and recruitment. And finally, there is nothing that proves that an external masking loudness is an indicator of the loudness percieved in the head. I believe it is possible to have a tinnitus easy to mask but percieved intensely and to have a low volume of tinnitus but hard to mask.

    In Antwerp, Dirk De Ridder uses a rational method to measure tinnitus intensity by LORETA EEG. Like in the article here:
    http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0007396

    So it IS possible to measure tinnitus ! It would be intersting to make LORETA EEGs before and after VNS to asses its clinical efficiency. In addition, one could make a study comparing MML with LORETA EEG measurement and VAS evaluations To settle this matter once and for all.

    Thank you a lot for your time and your attention and forgive me for my long post and lousy English.

    Yours sincerely, Nicolas Houart

    • Will Rosellini

      Very good points. Quick answer is that we have 3 out of 5 patients showing a clinically significant response to the tinnitus…we hope to publish a case study on the first patient in the next few months and the rest of the study by the end of the year. I think you make a good point on the need for an obective measure of tinnitus, which is shared by the clinical collaborators in Belgium. I will post more on why primary auditory cortex is only part of the tinnitus story…

    • Anonymous

      Hi Nicolas,
       
      We have data showing a clinically significant improvement in 2 out of 4 patients and are continuing to enroll.
       
      EEG is a very nice objective input into the tinnitus, but it is currently not accepted on a broad basis.  The THI continues to be the gold standard.   We’ve also looked into doing MEG, but we have limited time and resources for this first study.

  • ND

    Will:

    You stated that you have  seen dramatric effects  within 10 days, but the tinnitus returns unless the treatment is maintained.  What exacting do you mean by dramatric effects?  reduction, elimination, or what?   Is it my understanding that you do not have a permanent implant?  I read that the vns has been used for other conditions. Is it not the same device?  Do you know if  the clinical results will be published, and if so when? Where is the next clinical trial going be done at?  I know you all are doing all you can, but when you suffer from this terrible condition TINNITUS, the year 2015 cannot come fast enough!!

    • Anonymous

      Dramatic effects is a catch all for the percentage reductions we see in the Tinnitus Handicap Inventory and the MML (minimum masking level), plus the drops in the VAS scores. We are building a permanent implant now…we are writing up a case study on the first patient implanted and then hope to present the results of the study at a conference towards the end of the year.

  • Kevin

    I was wondering if you have looked into the visual counterpart of sorts to tinnitus, that is known as ‘Visual Snow’. I have read studies that suggest there is some correlation between the two, however. I personally suffer from it 24/7, whereas I don’t suffer from tinnitus nearly that much. If you need more information, there is http://www.visualsnow.com . It is a constant irritation, even when I close my eyes it is still there. I just want peace. There may be times when I ‘forget’ about it, but that is mainly when I’m looking at a computer screen which sort of ‘helps’ it seem lessened, not as bad. But even then, it is constant, television static-like visual overlay. The implants for tinnitus seem like they might work, but then, I’m not an expert. Please pass then on to whoever you think can help out with this.

    • Anonymous

      I haven’t heard of this, my sympathies for your struggles…

      • Kevin

        Well, I hope your team can at least look into it, when you finish up with the tinnitus treatment.

  • guy

    the page says 9 comments but i see only 8 ?

    • Anonymous

      Still getting used to this blogging thing, I have been talking to myself it seems for a few days…

  • TM

    Hi Mr. Rosellini,

    With regards to your statement that you and your team have seen clinical significant improvement in 2 out of 4 patients, as you go into your your official clinical trial are you (you and your team) going to try to investigate about the other 2 patients where the treatment didn’t work as well.

    This tinnitus is a hideous monster and no one should have to put up with it.

    Thanking you in advance,

    TM